A late Thursday afternoon just before my shift was due to finish, I was hiding from the rain under a roof outside a large shopping mall in our borough. ‘Hey’, I figured. ‘The tax payers get the reassurance of a friendly-looking police officer in a highly visible location, and I get the reassurance that despite being out on foot patrol on a soggy day, I get to stay dry. It’s a win-win, right?’
A mother with her little son walked by.
“See, Dale, he is here to take you to prison because you didn’t eat your vegetables yesterday.”, she said, and winked at me.
I squatted down, bringing myself down to the boy’s level.
“What do you want to be when you grow up, then?” I asked.
“Police!” the boy said, half-hiding behind his mother’s leg.
“Well, what foods is it you don’t like?” I asked, to no reply. “Is it peas?”
The boy nodded.
“What about carrots?”
He nodded again.
“How about… Sprouts?”
The boy scrunched his face up – clearly not a big fan of sprouts.
“Well, you see,” I said, “In order to be a police, you have to be strong. Do you know what makes you strong?”
“Peas?” the boy asked.
“Correct. I can tell you’re a smart boy – eat your peas, and you can be a police. You even get to carry handcuffs around with you!” I said, fished my handcuffs out of their pocket, and showed them to the boy. He inched forward, and touched the cold metal.
“Cold!” he said.
“Yes,” I replied. “That is, in fact, the main reason why people don’t want to get arrested. Handcuffs are very cold on your wrists.”
The boy nodded sagely, turned to his mother, and mumbled something about being OK with eating peas now.
The mother gave me a smile and a wave, as she led the boy into the shopping mall.
I love little interactions like that, and sometimes, I’m a little bit jealous of the Safer Neighbourhoods officers – sure their jobs may be a lot less action-packed than mine, but I reckon there’s definitely something to be said for preventative and community policing. I once went on a foot-patrol with one of my sergeants through one of the boroughs where he was a safer neighbourhood officer for half a decade – it was impressive; Even though he hadn’t been back to his patch for month, he still knew the names of hundreds of people, and some of the type of kids that normally wouldn’t be seen dead taking to a police officer happily came up to him to enquire about his family, his dog, and him. I do wonder if perhaps that is a more useful way to get to know the local population a lot better; spend more time with them, and invest your own time in being seen, gaining trust, and helping people.
My little daydream of the wonders of local policing was cut short by some sort of an altercation behind me. A mall security guard was wrestling a young woman out of the mall, and pushed her out the doors.
As I was taking stock of the situation, the woman spotted me, and walked over.
“Did you see that?” she asked.
“I saw you be removed from the mall, but nothing before that.”
“He threw me out for taking photos!”
“Were you taking photos?” I asked. As I asked, I saw the Nikon strap over her shoulder.
The security guard walked over as well, presumably to see what she was saying about him.
“Yes I was taking photos; it’s a brand new shopping mall, and the architecture is quite interesting. I’m a lecturer in architecture, and wanted to show off some of the details to my class as an example of how you can hide load-bearing structures in ornamental ways.”
“And then what happened?”
“The security guard came up to me, said I couldn’t take photos, and that I had to leave.”
“Did you leave?”
“No, I still had shopping to do.”
“Did you stop taking photos?”
“Yes, I did.”
“So why were you removed from the mall?”
“He said I had to give him my memory card. I refused. Then he took the camera off me, and deleted it.”
“Wait, what did he delete?”
“Everything! He formatted the memory card.”
I looked over at the security guard.
“Is this correct, sir?”
“Yeah. We have clear signs saying you can’t take photos in here. It’s private property, you know.” he said, and pointed at a sign by the entrance that, indeed, had a ‘no photography allowed’ icon on it.
I turned back to the photographer.
“Did you have any other photos on your memory card? Other than the ones of the mall?”
“Yeah, I’m not from London, so I’ve been walking around taking photos of lots of things.”
“She wasn’t allowed to take photos in here”, the security guard said.
“We have ourselves a bit of a problem,” I said.
“Damn right we do,” said the security guard. “People who are unable to read signs.”
“Actually,” I replied, “You are in a lot more trouble than she is.”
“What?” he said.
“What legal right did you have to remove those photos from this woman’s camera?”
“She didn’t have the right to take those photos!”
“I don’t dispute that, sir, but you didn’t answer my question. Under what law did you have the right to remove those photographs?”
“I… She didn’t have the right to take the photos in the first place. Of course I can delete them.”
“Right, two things on that: Assuming that you did have the right to delete the photos taken in the mall, what right do you have to delete all this woman’s photos? Even the ones that were taken outside the mall?”
“I… Er…”
“The second thing is that the correct answer is that you do not have the legal power to delete anything from anybody’s camera. The fact that she took photos where she wasn’t supposed to is her wrong, but it’s not a criminal offence; it’s a civil matter between the shopping mall and her, given that the shopping mall has decided to make a rule that says that she can’t take photos, and she decided to break that rule.”
“Now you listen to me, this is fucking bullshit…”
“Language,” I interrupted him, “But the real problem is that you decided to take matters in your own hands, and delete her files. If you want the files deleted, you need to get a court order: You can’t just delete files that don’t belong to you. That’s an offence under the Computer Misuse Act of 1990.”
“But… How the hell am I meant to do my job?”
“Well, not by committing criminal damage for starters,” said the woman.
“Anyway, I’m going to have to take some of both of your details”, I said.
“Wait, are you arresting me?” the security guard said.
“It hasn’t come to that yet,” I said.
“What do you mean ‘yet’?” he said. “I need to call my supervisor over, this is absolute bullshit. Just because this little bitch doesn’t have eyes in her fucking head…”
“Woah, woah, woah,” I interrupted him again. “There’s no need to call this lady any names. Besides, you’re both in the wrong here, the only difference is that you’ve committed an actual criminal offence in deleting those photos.”
“You know what…” the woman said, as she opened up her camera, took the memory card out, and replaced it with a different memory card. “Don’t worry about it.”
“What?” I said.
“It doesn’t matter that this clown decided to delete my photos, I can easily restore them when I get home. My husband is a photographer, he has shown me how easy it is to get photos off a formatted card.”
“So…” I asked.
“So, if it’s all the same to you, I’d rather just get on my way, and this gentleman can walk away without being arrested.”
“Er…” I said. Sure, I was convinced that the security guard had committed a crime, but I have to admit that right there and then, I couldn’t remember neither the wording of criminal damage nor of the Computer Misuse Act well enough to be completely sure exactly which laws he had broken. And, if the photographer was happy to restore the images herself, it wouldn’t be any less of a crime, but it would certainly make my life a lot easier.
“Right, stop for a moment” I said.
“Mr Rogers”, I read off his name tag. “Are you happy to let this women on her way?”
He grunted something that sounded more or less like a ‘sure’.
“Miss…” I said.
“Mrs,” she replied. “Call me Lisa.”
“Lisa, are you happy for me to not go any further with the deleted photos?”
“Sure, no problem.”
“Right, can you please apologise to each other?”
After an exchange of half-hearted apologies, Lisa left the mall, and the security guy went back inside. And I decided to spend the rest of my shift tracking down the security guard’s supervisor
***
Matt Delito is a pseudonym for a policeman working for the Metropolitan Police. All Notes from the Frontline are not entirely “the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,” due to the sensitive nature of the business, but are all based on actual events. These days, he’s on Facebook and Twitter as well.
Matt has a book based on his Notes from the Front Line column out now – you can get it from Amazon, in paperback or on Kindle.
If you missed his previous columns on Giz UK, check them out over here.
Image credit: Police image from Shutterstock.
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No ju jitsu this week? Very disappointing.
I myself am disspointed that there was no car chace. What does Matt think we read this column for?
That said, he has better spelling than me!
I agree. More firing two guns whilst jumping through the air please.
At least I haven’t yet resorted to a whole blog post about being stuck in the office on a 486/66Mhz computer, doing paperwork…
The only reason you haven’t is because it’d out you as the author of ‘Emails from the Command Line’ :p
Good read but seemed a little light on content this week. However still the highlight of the week (even after the Kindle Fire coverage!)
I agree, I think there was always going to come a point where the highlight stories built up over Matt’s career were going to to run out with a new column to write each week. The articles are still fascinating but just a little less breathtaking than before.
We need something cool to go down on Matt’s next shift!
‘Cool’ but with a safe outcome for all those involved, of course.
Tis a fair point. Matt’s articles are still a highly interesting and great to have these snippets of his life as copper.
Interesting. She has stated that she intends to restore the pictures, which would no doubt include those that infringed on the malls policy. By allowing her to walk away has the mall waved the right to object to their use?
Also what Should the security guard have done in this case? Obviously he can request the photographer deletes the pictures, but if they refuse, what can they do other than eject them so they cant take any more?
I guess like Matt said if the Mall was that worried about the photos they would have to pursue civil action.
Can’t see what damage her pictures could realistically do though.
but how could they pursue civil action? They have no right to detain her and no power to compel her to give them her details so that they could serve a civil suit. ultimately it looks like this policy is a non starter.
That’s a good point. I guess they would have to wait until the photos were published or used in some way, at which point they could use the policy as justification for having the photos taken down.
I imagine whoever wrote the rules/ designed the sign did so as a back-up plan to fall back on if they ever needed to (maybe to tick a box on a child protection assessment). They probably didn’t intend for people to be tossed out of the mall on a regular basis because of it.
To pursue civil action they would have to prove damages. i.e. that her taking photos has caused a negative impact on the shopping mall as a business. This is almost always nearly impossible.
Basically, “no photography” rules on private land are nearly completely unenforceable without the land owners or someone acting on the landowners behalf committing a criminal offence. I guess at best they could ask them to leave, if they don’t leave then they could be committing aggravated trespass but again they’d have to call the police to remove them as they wouldn’t be able to touch them without risking having assault charges pressed on them by the individual. Pointlessly complicated stuff really.
Hmmm……..
Most of the people working security in retail are ok, but you do get some idiots who are real idiots where the power goes to their head.
Yes, that awesome, terrifying power…
Oh god I have this image in my head – get it out!
If taking the photos was an offence, then wouldn’t deleting them from her camera constitute destruction of evidence?
Still, at least you didn’t run into mallninja
( http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/ )
Oh christ, I haven’t read that in ages… People like that scare the bejesus out of me. Can you imagine, some bloke working in ‘mall security’ with double-ceramic breast and back plates, with two sidearms, a tactical shotgun and a machine pistol, and a suitcase with extra armour plating?
Only in America, son. Only in America.
That…..that was an interesting read. Some people come out with some odd things on the internet.
That mall cop was a jerk, highly unprofessional swearing at her too.
Matt,
My brother told me this story from when he took some pics with his camera club. Would this really have happened.
My brother was taking pictures in a random shit-hole highstreet and a policeman came over and asked them (he was with a photography club at the time) to delete his pictures under something to do with the terrorism act, as it included images of CCTV camera’s in operation.
As they refused, he and two others were detained and taken to the local station. When asked why they wouldn’t delete them, they were informed that the camera contained film and was not digital. They were then let go with the pictures.
Would this really have happened?
Weren’t there some stories like this when people were photographing the olympic village when it was being built? Or was that the security guards rather than proper police..
I don’t know the specifics, but in general, these are the rules we have to adhere to in the met: http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm
I love the section :
Identifying the media
Genuine members of the media carry identification, for instance the UK Press Card, which they will present on request.
There are a lot of accounts of this, particularly from small town provincial police (who presumably haven’t been well informed of the matter) although it seems to have got a lot better in the last few years.
Also quite a lot of petty officials like this security guy in a range of jobs doing it.
However what I find hilarious is that these people, sometimes police sometimes not, always talk about terrorism protection and it is the most inane and stupid reason imaginable.
If that was a valid reason google would have been in an immense amount of trouble as basically every street in the country is mapped, including pedestrian areas, most major landmarks have detailed 3d models on google maps.
Not only that the plans to almost all buildings are available in public records for people to find out. there is a great Mark Thomas one off channel 4 programme from 10 years called Secret Map of Britain where he pokes fun at the absurdities of some of these laws about photographing of sensitive buildings and blank areas on map, official secrets and the like. One of the funniest bits being where he can’t take a picture of Margaret Thatcher’s house (which has a security detail outside) but has a, far more useful in terrorism/bombing terms, copy of the plans from the local public records office.
Also terrorists often arent that stupid (although saying that many are really dumb).
I have the unshakable feeling the Lisa was irrevocably cute.
Most cuteness is irrevocable – but no, she wasn’t, actually
Matt, did you end up having a Chuck Norris fist fight with the security guard in part two of this story? Otherwise it sounds like a woman got bailed out of a shop and then went home and somewhere in the middle you interfered and delayed everyone from getting on with their lives.
Just saying.
A lecturer in archaeology or do you mean architecture?
Maybe she was a lecturer in archaeology… FROM THE FUTURE!!!
Yes I saw that too (when I studied Architecture a lot of people confused the two). Really they are quite similar, it’s just depends on how much time you’ve got
Did somebody say River Song?
Haha. That’s a whoopsie – well spotted, I’ve fixed it
I wonder what secrets that mall was hiding to warrant deleting photographs and requesting non be taken… conspiracy theory all the way!
A lot of the time it is at the request of the Companies in the shopping centre many of whom ban photography in their stores to protect their visual merchandising. It prevents competitors taking detailed pictures of things like store layouts, merchandise placements and the merchandise itself.
Lakeside also charges a fortune for production companies to film on their premises for “reality” shows.
It’s interesting how much misunderstanding and misinformation seems to surround what you can and can’t photograph in public and ‘private’ public places. And I mean between management and security staff, rather than between the public and the law. Reminds me of this response from a while ago that someone got from the estate manager of Canary Wharf after being (wrongly) hassled by a member of their security about taking photos there, as seemingly that’s all private property around there too, which I hadn’t realised.
http://www.flickr.com/groups/canarywharf/discuss/72057594125957343/
I Have loved your articles for months, but let be just say this. You have just shown that you are not an ordinary uniformed officer, as for one you are far too knowledgeable about the actual ins and outs of the law and for another you seem to be saying that you will take the word of an actual citizen over that of a rent-a-cop. I have never met a uniformed policeman (and in the 20+ years I have worked in the licensed trade, both restaurants and bars, I have met hundreds) that takes any notice of anything real people say but will jump though hoops to believe any brain dead football steward or numpty in a pseudo police uniform.
Luckily for me I also know rather a lot of policemen in plain clothes who don’t have to get their rocks off by harassing joe public and will tell the jumped up little hitlers where to go when they try and abuse their uthotity.
In theory the pictures were not acutally deleted, a soft format of a SD card just removes the file names from the directory
Although any journalist worth his salt should be carrying a spare SD card
http://camerarepair.blogspot.co.uk/2007/12/recovering-those-accidentally-lost.html lists all the free recovery tools and I’ve used photorec many times.
Quite a few Papz and activists in any case now use Eye-Fi cards with little reprinted stickers on them to make them look like vanilla cards just in case the cards are confiscated. That way the card can be confiscated and everyone is happy, ahem.
We had a similar issue
My wife wanted to take some arty shot of our car (lotus Elise) We live in an apartment built on the side of a shopping center, which was great when it was first built, but it’s now a massive boy racer nightmare.
Every night we have chaved up corsas, quad bikes and scooters whizzing around! The noise is horrendous and the driving is shocking! But, unfortunately, the personel at our local police station was decimated and eventually merged into another force, so even if we call the ‘Dudley policing unit’ they are rarely able to send a car over (not lke the chavs give a shit anyway)
Actually (a rant is brewing) what pisses me off the most is that these antisocial pricks have an unfair advantage! Their total disregard of the law. I’m powerless to stop them without breaking the law myself! And believe me I have tried
Anyway, back to the photography
We parked up in a nice spot by the canal and my wife started to take a few shots. While we were taking the pictures, the boy racers were bombing about, smoking weed in the McDonalds car park and trying to get the back end of a corsa to drift around the roundabout.
After maybe only five minutes, the centres security turned up in their truck, yellow lights flashing everywhere and two security staff came over and really aggressively barked that we couldn’t take pictures because it’s private property
I politely pointed out that I live here, his reply ” you must be fucking stupid” we went home, there is no point arguing.
That night the chavs carried on until 2 in the morning, we didn’t see the security truck at all and police were busy with an incident in Birmingham.
Sorry, rant over
There are far worse places in the world to live, with troubles that go beyond the noise pollution caused by boy racers.
I know, I’m just tired and miserable
It’s not just noise pollution though, they all seem incapable of using the bins at McDonald’s they regularly crash into the metal fences at the side of the road and in the time I have lived here, three people have died! All rta’s
a video taken one night from my living room
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNfvnJcEfyc
There’s something pretty warming about this photograph. I get bollocked for taking photos in the strangest of places and I always try to make sure that I’m within legal rights to do so, I don’t trespass and I never breach anyones comfort zone just for a photo but I always end up getting verbal for it.
Very cool article Matt.
Best line of the entire story is “I can tell you’re a smart boy – eat your peas, and you can be a police”.
You can be a police. Wonderful hahaha
What the hell is wrong with me.. I meant there’s something pretty warming about this story.
I had something similar happen to me a couple of weeks ago in Hatfield.
I’d parked on the top of the Galleria shopping centre and on my way back to my car saw a pretty stunning view of Hertfordshire. After five minutes of taking shots of Hertfordshire (none of the Galleria) I was approached by a Security Guard with regards to my photography. The conversation went along these lines.
S.G.
You know that you’re not allowed to take photographs?
Me.
What of Hertfordshire?
S.G.
It’s illegal to take photographs.
Me.
What of Hertfordshire? It’s illegal to photograph Hertfordshire?
S.G.
You’re not allowed to photograph the Shopping mall sir?
Me.
Well it’s just as well that I only took photographs of Hertfordshire then.
S.G.
It could be a terrorist risk taking photos sir.
Me.
What of Hertfordshire? Taking photographs of Hertfordshire is a terrorist risk?
S.G.
Can I see the photographs sir?
Me. (Showing him the pictures on my phone) See Hertfordshire.
Luckily he left it at that, but it really really pissed me off, and I was determined that nothing was going to be deleted off my phone.
You should have tried to see how long you could keep it going. Herfordshire is a good word, I guess!
I got bored eventually. Actually the Security guard was relatively good about it but I was livid that I had been stopped and the Hertfordshire was aimed to be a bit provocative.