In a rare opportunity to speak to one of Britain’s greatest living scientists we decided to ask the Astronomer Royal, Lord Rees, the big questions: is there extraterrestrial life out there, are there other universes and what came before the Big Bang?
Martin Rees, who was president of the esteemed Royal Society until 2010, has made many significant advances in Cosmology over the years, including his study of Quasars which, indirectly, led to the final disproof of the Steady State theory.
For those of an inquisitive disposition, we invite you to step inside the mind of Lord Rees.
I was working with a supervisor who was a cosmologist and we discussed whether there was evidence against the Steady State theory. The discovery of objects at very great distances such as Quasars allowed one to compare the universe today with the universe a long time ago to see if it was different in the past from now. We highlighted one of the first bits of evidence that things were different in the past which was incompatible to the Steady State theory but of course quite compatible with an evolving universe where galaxies might indeed have been more prone to explode in the past than now.
First of all, I prefer the term Anthropic reasoning, it’s not really a principle. The idea there is that perhaps we are in a universe which is a subset of all possible universes but is one of the subset in which complexity can arise. We shouldn’t be surprised if we are not in the kind of universe that is empty of matter, has no gravity, or is very small. There are some cosmological theories which permit the existence of a huge range of universes. We then have to ask, are we in a typical member of the subset in which we could exist rather than being a typical member of the ensemble?
This is something I’ve worked on for a number of years but it is of lively interest because some of the best or most popularly believed theories of fundamental physics suggest that in fact the laws of nature have a certain arbitrariness in them and could be different. We then have to ask why we are in a universe where the laws have a particular form.
The concept around Anthropic reasoning is one way to deal with this. To give an analogy, if there was only one planet in the universe, you might be surprised that it is a planet that allows life to exist because it’s orbiting a long-lived star at a distance such that water neither boils nor freezes. But now we know there are zillions of planets we are not surprised that some have these conditions and we are one of that subset.
The important discovery in the last decade or so is that most stars do have retinues of planets orbiting them just as the sun has the familiar planets going around it. This was speculated before but the evidence only emerged recently. Many of those planets are like the Earth and that of course makes one wonder if they would have life on them as the Earth does.
We still can’t answer that question because we can’t get direct evidence of whether there’s a biosphere of these other planets but I hope that in the next 20 years or so we will be able to answer this question more definitely in one of two ways: either we will be able to find some evidence that there is life elsewhere by astronomical observations or, through advances in biochemistry, have a better idea of how life began here on earth because that is a problem which still perplexes all biologists. If we understood how life began here on Earth we would then know whether it was via some rare fluke or whether it was via some process that would be expected to have occurred in the same way in a similar environment on another planet.
They’ve been discovered in the last few years and there are two techniques which are used. One is by observing very carefully the star and finding that its motion wobbles a bit due to the gravitational pull of a planet going around it. And the other technique is the so called transit method, where one monitors very, very accurately the brightness of the stars and looks at the slight dimming that would occur if a planet moves across in front of it, blocking out a bit of light.
This latter technique has been done by the Kepler spacecraft which, for the last three years, has been monitoring the brightness of 150,000 stars with a precision of 1 part in 100,000. And it repeats all that several times an hour.
Well, what is remarkable is that we can now trace cosmic history back with a fair degree of confidence to a time when everything was squeezed to a density higher than in an atomic nucleus and when everything was expanding in a timescale of about a nanosecond. We trace things back with confidence to there. Now, you then ask, what happened even before that and of course a great deal probably happened before that time but that is more uncertain because the further you extrapolate back towards the very beginning, the more extreme the conditions get: the denser, the hotter, the more energetic.
Therefore we have less certainty about them because conditions are more extreme than we can simulate in the lab here on earth. The physics of the very, very earliest stages is less confidently understood so we don’t quite know. However, it is amazing that over the last 40 years we have changed from not being quite sure if the universe is evolving at all to being able with confidence to trace it back to when it was only a nanosecond old. That’s about 13.7 billion years ago.
But every advance leads to the development of a new set of questions and the current fundamental questions are to understand why it’s expanding the way it is, why our universe contains the particular mixture of radiation and atoms and dark matter that we observe. It is an ongoing quest but we are making a great deal of progress so there are lots of ideas about the very beginning and one hopes in the next forty years some of them will firm up. Incidentally, when we do have a better understanding of the earliest stage of the Big Bang we will be able to say with more confidence whether our Big Bang was the only one or whether there were others as well, like in the multiverse concept.
As we go back in our minds towards the very beginning, the conditions, as I mentioned, get more extreme and we have to jettison more and more of our common sense concepts. Quantum effects are very counter intuitive, and when we get right back to the very beginning the whole idea of 3 dimensions of space and one of time, may have to be abandoned or generalised in some way. If we have to abandon the idea of time as a dimension ticking away then the whole concept of ‘before and after’ gets a bit fuzzy. The question of how we embed our concept of the Big Bang in some empirically tested fundamental theory is certainly a challenge for the future.
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He didn’t really answer anything in even a halfway concrete manner, did he ? Does he actually have a personal opinion on anything, or is everything he ever does regimented to the scientific principle ? If nothing else, it must make stuff like choosing clothes a nightmare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPcssq-7Us
Is it possible to answer in a concrete manner when most developments in this field are ‘theoretical’? Isn’t that whole point?
It’s possible to have a personal opinion, yes. His entire interview reeked of “staying in my job”.
For example : Yes, I personally think there’s alien life elsewhere in our galaxy. I think that even statistically to assume that the earth is the entire repository of all life in the galaxy is an absurd notion.
This dude though ? “Well, of course, it depends entirely on stuff that we don’t know yet and …..”
Yawn.
Fair.
The thing that bugs me about the big bang Theory is that fundamentally a singularity is no better than what they are ultimately trying to explain ie Infinity to me its nothing more than the scientific equivalent than adam and eve, The doppler effect means nothing when you have contradictions to the founding observation that everything is moving away from one another, contradictions like The milky way is going to collide with Andromeda, and if it all expanding where is the centre of this expansion and all this coupled with the fact when they projected a triangle onto the background radiation of the known universe the sides all added up to 180 degrees implying the universe is much bigger than what we can currently see.
I find it hard to understand how he can say in a universe of at least 100 billion galaxies (in the known universe) he can be wary of saying in all probability there is life on other planets but say with confidence that the big bang happened and further more exactly how old the universe is. Just my opinion.
Galaxies colliding doesnt contradict the suggestiont hat we’re expanding from a central point, for a start not everythings moving at the same speed and second gravity has a part to play.
My apologies I just threw that one in there without going into depth, and perhaps it isn’t as big a contradiction as I may have implied, obviously gravity is kind of fundamental to the whole topic, but it does rather beg the question of how the gravity of two bodies being thrown from a central point can break the force of the big bang and veer towards one another indeed how did the galaxies condense into their present form. after all the doppler effect implies that all/most/some galaxies are moving away from one another with some vigour, thats one of the reasons why scientist are searching for dark matter in order to explain such behaviour because it runs contrary to the theory of the big bang.
Except we’re not expanding from a central point – Every point in the universe is moving away from every other point – the local level movement of galaxies towards each other is still consistent with this; Andromeda is moving towards us far faster than we are expanding away from it.
yeah, sorry I didnt explain it very well, I was trying to get across the point that expansion doesnt necessarily have to be uniform and that you can have collisions without contradicting the bg bang theory.
Not without celestial bodies having far more mass than they have been calculated to have or breaking the laws of physics.
please take a look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJioWKPlBIw
God created the universe, look at Quran it tells u everything,
The world was created in 6 days, it has a beggining and it will end.
yeah, and ants have ears and are made of glass. thats the one.
That’s funny, Buddhists and Taoists say something else…… but who’s right? There’s only one way to find out…… Science!
How did u come into existence!!! and take that back to the beginning this universe and the functioning of the moon and earth and everything inside it is not some fluke!. Look at how or bodies are formed in the womb, and how our body works, its not some evolution and were not descendents of monkeys.
I know exactly how I came into existence. Go and watch the Miracles of Life series on the BBC. Science. Explains an awful lot more than religious texts. And you don’t have to take anyone’s word for it – you can go and find out for yourself. Open your mind! Science FTW! It’s not magic or religion.
I think he’s trolling I don’t think your average Gizmodo reader would subscribe to such nonsense unless he’s just some random Googler whose stumbled across this article.
Yeah I know but I like toying with creationists – like shooting fish in a barrel! I may stop feeding the troll now though!
I am a regular gizmodo reader, its just its a topic which i feel strongly about, one has to realise there is a higher power and intelligence beyond this universe that is all seeing and all hearing with ultimate power over everything. Its not all science, consciouseness is important, can anyone create (humans) life by themselves. We are limited in our power and knowledge. we can only exist in the earths eco system, we need air to breathe and water. we have been made as such and need to realise our limits and goals in life.
I know what you mean Trolls are hard to resist sometimes, just leave monkey boy to his thoughts you know what they say if you gave a monkey a typewriter and enough time governed by the laws of probability he would eventually write the complete works of Shakespeare, who knows what this monkey might achieve given enough time
(I actually think jet is some sort of experimental AI – just look at the posts, looks like Turing test candidate software!)
I think we’re probably being a little bit unfair here, if he isn’t in fact a troll then after all it is his opinion I certainly don’t like it when someone pours score on my opinions thats not to say we can’t pour scorn on anyone’s opinion for example some people treat women like crap for example and I think a lot more that scorn should be poured on them.
but his opinion isn’t hurting anyone directly but Im sad to say its a waste of time debating with creationists they’re not really interested in the science of it, they want answers and they want them now and gods the quickest way to get there without having to study or examine anything in any great depth. I hope thats not an insult to our friend Jet but its the way I see it.
Hello, thanks for the feedback, i am not a machine, ha ha, thanks tennet for your understanding, obviously its not the right place to debate what i was trying to say, since the people on board are not on the same wavelength, i hope someone will ponder a little over my words, and become guided!!!
I think its best to close the matter, thanks for reading, bye.